| Author |
Messages |
|
David
Posts:499
 |
| 05/21/2009 11:58 AM |
|
"now which friend was the comment about, 1 or 2, cuz I can't explain what she was meaning, unless I know which one you don't understand... cuz the way both of them said it... it didn't come accross at all like she wants a doormat..."
It was your female friend that said, ""If a guy doesn't want to get me ring cuz he feels it's not fair on guys and is making a protest about it... Id be pretty peeved off and probably wouldn't accept his proposal, cuz it's like he cares more about settling the score, that we should be equal, and not caring about how I feel at all..." I have a significant problem with this because yes, it is quite selfish. She's saying that if a guy stands up for himself, his own rights and right to be equal, she will reject him because somehow it means he doesn't care about her. If that logical (or moral) principle is true, it must be true in all circumstances (or else it's not really logical or moral), including when the genders are reversed. So that would mean that if a girl were to stand up for her right to be equal, if a girl were to ever make a protest about being expected to do something demeaning simply because she's female, if a girl were to put forth that an issue is unfair (read: unequal) based on her gender, guys have every right to reject her as that means she doesn't care about us. If you admit it's true of guys, you have to admit it's true of girls.
But again, no one has really answered my question. Your friend somehow thinks not wanting to buy a ring means he doesn't care about her. This is very weird to me. He just proposed! Of course her cares about her. Why is his declaration of love and wanting to spend the rest of his life with you not enough of a sign that he loves and is committed to you?
"but one question... if the guy proposes, and he gives the ring... the girl cant exactly give him something that exact moment, cuz... well... she didn't exactly know he was gonna propose... so how would she go about giving him something... Just wondering (like when would be appropriate?)"
It wouldn't have to be immediate. The timing of the giving is not really the crux of the matter. I would be satisfied if the cultural practice were the guy presents a ring on the proposal, and afterward the girl gets the guy something.
Also, one more thing. If all the things the girls are saying about giving an engagement ring are correct, why are those things correct only of girls? Why can't they also be true of guys? |
|
Aim at heaven and you will get earth thrown in. Aim at earth and you get neither.
- C.S. Lewis |
|
|
Koudee
Posts:91
|
| 05/21/2009 12:59 PM |
|
This is why I don't really believe that total equality of the genders is a good thing...(in a extreme sense of the idea)
A girl dreams of getting a ring one day, just like they plan out their wedding, and bridesmaids.
And you have to respect social idioms when discussing things like this. If not their practice, their influence.
Because then questions such as But again, no one has really answered my question. Your friend somehow thinks not wanting to buy a ring means he doesn't care about her. This is very weird to me.
Also, one more thing. If all the things the girls are saying about giving an engagement ring are correct, why are those things correct only of girls? Why can't they also be true of guys?.
are not as "weird"
Her desire for a ring is not what I am placing under question, (if any interest still remains in answering my original post), only to explore the possibilities of a more imaginative alternative that would have more sentimental value, then material, and a simple opinion from the girls.
David, I don’t know what has hurt you and is making you so bitter, but its showing. Not every girl out there is seeking to emasculate us. There are plenty of girls who want a passionate husband. And don’t forget that often the Husband aids in this by buying into lies like “I have to have a 6 figure salary to make my wife feel secure”. But yes, I do understand that everywhere we turn as guys now we see “Men are scum, who only want sex, and girls are undervalued goddesses” , and it makes me frustrated to, but if you want to do something about it, don’t scrutinize people, educate them.
And let me just clarify this in advance, maybe I have misread you, but I have a hard time thinking that such scrutiny comes from a healthy center.
As far as the “debate” at hand, there are a couple of things that are not being fully considered, and only assumed.
One: that a man has an issue giving a ring, the possibility stands that many want to.
Two: that every girl wants a ring that burdens the man, omitting the tendency that a girl would rather have a happy man, than many “tribute items”.
Three: There is subjective, and objective truth. |
|
|
|
|
David
Posts:499
|
| 05/21/2009 1:28 PM |
|
First off, I apologize for hijacking your thread. It wasn't my intention, haha.
I would say that total equality is a good thing. However, I don't think that equality means interchangeability. We are different, yes, and should be treated as such, but we are equal in worth. If a practice assigns more worth to one gender than another, that is a practice that must be scrutinized and fixed.
"And you have to respect social idioms when discussing things like this. If not their practice, their influence."
Respect, perhaps, but not accept. If we all accepted every social practice all the time, no social reform would ever take place. No social injustice would ever be righted. As such, social customs should always be questioned.
"David, I don’t know what has hurt you and is making you so bitter, but its showing."
Actually, I'm not bitter, haha, though I can understand why you might think that. One thing about me is that I am a very passionate person, about a lot of things. In a lot of ways, that's a real strength. However, it is a weakness in that often I will appear to be more angry than I really am. What, to me, is simply having a friendly debate will often appear to others as me jumping down their throat. That is never my intention. So, I've never been personally hurt in this regard. My conclusions I have arrived at simply by the process of reason. But I apologize if I have come off stronger than I intended.
"Not every girl out there is seeking to emasculate us."
I agree with this. However, many girls might participate in certain social practices that do seek to emasculate us, simply because they (and we) have been taught that it is normal. It is not their desire to emasculate us, yet they still participate unknowingly (this is also true in the reverse, and is not just about engagement rings). So once again, questioning all things considered "normal" is a good thing. If the practice is healthy (or at worst, not damaging) it will easily stand up to such scrutiny.
"And don’t forget that often the Husband aids in this by buying into lies like "I have to have a 6 figure salary to make my wife feel secure'"
That is a lie that men often believe, but they often believe it because that is how many women treat us. The girls on this board? Of course not. But yes, the world at large. Fixing that problem isn't so much a matter of instructing men but of instructing women.
"but if you want to do something about it, don’t scrutinize people, educate them. "
I agree, which is why I apologized for coming on so strongly. However, sometimes the subject matter about which education is required is of such a nature as to offend no matter what you do.
"One: that a man has an issue giving a ring, the possibility stands that many want to."
His not having an issue isn't as relevant as it might seem. He as well has been taught that it is a perfectly acceptable practice, so it is only logical that he would believe so, even if it's not. Many women scoffed at the notion that they were the victims of sexism.
"Two: that every girl wants a ring that burdens the man, omitting the tendency that a girl would rather have a happy man, than many “tribute items”."
According to what a lot of the girls are saying (especially Jojo's friend), they'd rather have a ring than a happy man. And why should the man not receive some sort of symbol?
"And let me just clarify this in advance, maybe I have misread you, but I have a hard time thinking that such scrutiny comes from a healthy center."
This predicated on the falsehood of my premise. If I'm right, then I'm right. However, even if I'm wrong, I'm not so sure that means I have an unhealthy center. But perhaps you mean not what I'm saying but how I've said it? If so, that is what I meant above by coming across more passionate than I intend.
"Three: There is subjective, and objective truth."
Well, there are subjective and objective truths. However, for the subjective, perhaps truth is the wrong word. Subjective is always secondary and must be applied to objective. I might prefer Lewis over Dostoevsky, that is a subjective truth of me, and it's totally fine as long as it doesn't contradict an objective truth. However, in terms of this discussion, I'm speaking mostly about objective truth - that both genders deserve respect.
My overall solution is not to take away engagement rings. To add actual meaning back to the practice, I'm simply suggesting that the woman also present the man with some sort of physical sign of her commitment and love to him. Why is this such a radical notion? |
|
Aim at heaven and you will get earth thrown in. Aim at earth and you get neither.
- C.S. Lewis |
|
|
Adelynn
Posts:189
|
| 05/21/2009 2:44 PM |
|
It would seem you're preaching to the choir, David, if you keep saying things like "Not the girls on this board" and "A lot of girls are saying [this] (especially Jojo's friend)."
Why do you say that, in changing the world, it is more about instructing women?? |
|
"... I will pour out my Spirit upon all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy..." Acts 2.17
What If His People Prayed? |
|
|
David
Posts:499
|
| 05/21/2009 4:09 PM |
|
Well, I'm sort of preaching to the choir. I have an immense amount of of respect for the girls on here for a lot of reasons. Frankly, given the way most girls I'm around act, it's refreshing to come on here and be able to realize that not all girls are like the ones I see. However, I do disagree on some issues. Though I seem ultra-passionate about this one, this is not at all the biggest issue to me. I feal I've come across more angry sounding than I ever intended.
Wait, I only meant about a specific issue. Changing the world for the better would require instructing both genders. In some issues women need more instruction, in some men need more instruction. What I said above I was only referencing one specific issue. There's a whole mess of things guys need to work on too. |
|
Aim at heaven and you will get earth thrown in. Aim at earth and you get neither.
- C.S. Lewis |
|
|
David
Posts:499
|
| 05/21/2009 7:49 PM |
|
| The irony for me, and I may have mentioned this above, is that I will undoubtedly buy a girl an engagement ring. Even though I feel strongly on this issue, my desire for her happiness will exceed my desire for her to think I'm right, at least in this situation (there are many situations in which my being right will trump her being happy - for instance, if she wants me to kill myself for her to be happy, I won't do that... stuff like that). If she then decided to give me some token of her commitment to me, that would of course make me extremely happy. But I don't expect it. |
|
Aim at heaven and you will get earth thrown in. Aim at earth and you get neither.
- C.S. Lewis |
|
|
JoJo
Posts:1657
|
| 05/21/2009 8:33 PM |
|
O.K. for one thing... dont worry daivd, I know it's a debate, lol, and i get that you're not angry, haha I might have come accross like that too... but I'm just a debator... (you know, was on the debate team @ school, and had to debate things from every perspective)
So yeah... some of the stuff I post, isnt exactly what I agree with, it's just to make people think... 
WOW there's alot to reply to...
O.k. "If a guy doesn't want to get me ring cuz he feels it's not fair on guys and is making a protest about it... Id be pretty peeved off and probably wouldn't accept his proposal, cuz it's like he cares more about settling the score, that we should be equal, and not caring about how I feel at all..."
I think she was meaning... like he's taking the issue of equality, instead of her, as the focus of his actions... like he cares more about making a stand against (in this case) the guy not getting anything, as opposed to the nice gesture of a ring... not that she wouldn't be o.k. with not getting one (Depending on the girl, and how much value she places in material things...) but like the reason behind why she's not getting one, like she thinks it's selfish for him to only not want to give her a ring cuz it's demeaning to guys... (unless of course youd discussed it prior to the engagement...) like he's thinking more about rights than a proposal. Am i making sense? idk really how to explain it... like she wouldn't accept it cuz his focus is wrong, not that she demeans him... it's just cuz she see's what's more important in his life...
And yes, I get what you mean, but I don't think she was meaning it like that...
But again, no one has really answered my question. Your friend somehow thinks not wanting to buy a ring means he doesn't care about her. This is very weird to me. He just proposed! Of course her cares about her. Why is his declaration of love and wanting to spend the rest of his life with you not enough of a sign that he loves and is committed to you?
O.k. for one thing... any girl would be estatic that he just proposed... and probably the ring would skip her mind in all the excitement, but along the line, if a ring didn't materialize (due to the socially accepted practise) she'd think something was up, or wrong... and might start to question if he really meant it... I donno why, and I cant answer it, I'm just stating how a normal girl would react...
Also, one more thing. If all the things the girls are saying about giving an engagement ring are correct, why are those things correct only of girls? Why can't they also be true of guys?
what do you mean by "true of guys?"
As to koudee...
One: that a man has an issue giving a ring, the possibility stands that many want to.
Two: that every girl wants a ring that burdens the man, omitting the tendency that a girl would rather have a happy man, than many “tribute items”.
Three: There is subjective, and objective truth.
as for #2... as i've stated before, most girls would just be happy with something (as long as it wasn't a cheap $2 ring from the $2 shop ) it wouldn't have to cosat him the world... she's just happy he loves her enough to get her something.
David...
My overall solution is not to take away engagement rings. To add actual meaning back to the practice, I'm simply suggesting that the woman also present the man with some sort of physical sign of her commitment and love to him. Why is this such a radical notion?
It isn't one... it's just that most girls wouldn't have seen the situation from the point of veiw you're explaining, so they wouldn't know where you're coming from... and then they'd be confused (remember girls can be easily confused by what guys say/do...)
I'm sure if you'd talked about it with the girl you'd possibly marry (it might be an argument at the start, cuz she wouldn't get where it was coming from... so she might be upset... try explaining it calmly... ) Then i'm sure she'd agree... I mean, I totally didn't get what you were at until this debate started, and now I can see what you're on about, and most likely I'd probably get my fiancee something too...
and I don't think her happiness is just because of the ring... i just think she'd be utterly confused if there wasn't one (just because of the way things are these days...)
Just one question... when you said "kill myself to make her happy" does that count if you give your life for her, like you jump out in front of a car to push her out of the way, but you die instead? just wondering...  |
|
Turn up the music
Turn it up loud
Take a few chances
Let it all out
'Cause you won't regret it
Lookin' back from where you have been
'Cause it's not who you knew
And it's not what you did
It's how you live
.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.
God Bless!
Mwah XOXO
JoJo |
|
|
David
Posts:499
|
| 05/21/2009 9:25 PM |
|
Jojo, if only I knew you outside of these forums. You've got a real brain on you.
And where are you from?
"I think she was meaning... like he's taking the issue of equality, instead of her, as the focus of his actions... like he cares more about making a stand against (in this case) the guy not getting anything, as opposed to the nice gesture of a ring... not that she wouldn't be o.k. with not getting one (Depending on the girl, and how much value she places in material things...) but like the reason behind why she's not getting one, like she thinks it's selfish for him to only not want to give her a ring cuz it's demeaning to guys... (unless of course youd discussed it prior to the engagement...) like he's thinking more about rights than a proposal. Am i making sense? idk really how to explain it... like she wouldn't accept it cuz his focus is wrong, not that she demeans him... it's just cuz she see's what's more important in his life..."
Given that it's a social norm, I would support the notion of talking with the girl about it beforehand. It's definitely not something even the best of intentioned girls could probably handle out of the blue, given, as you have stated, that it is a social norm.
"O.k. for one thing... any girl would be estatic that he just proposed... and probably the ring would skip her mind in all the excitement, but along the line, if a ring didn't materialize (due to the socially accepted practise) she'd think something was up, or wrong... and might start to question if he really meant it... I donno why, and I cant answer it, I'm just stating how a normal girl would react..."
I think the why is that it is a socially accepted norm. It's what has been taught, whether right or wrong.
"what do you mean by 'true of guys?'"
Imagine that I had just stated that the practice of giving an engagment ring is a negative practice. Now imagine all of the reasons most girls would give for why it should be an accepted practice (sign of commitment/love, sign that she's taken, etc.). What I mean by "true of guys" is why are those things, given that only girls receive a physical symbol, therefore only true of girls? If they were true of guys, meaning that guys deserve the same sort of treatment, why do we not receive a sign? And why do most girls seem so opposed to giving a physical symbol to the man they're going to marry?
"I'm sure if you'd talked about it with the girl you'd possibly marry (it might be an argument at the start, cuz she wouldn't get where it was coming from... so she might be upset... try explaining it calmly... ) Then i'm sure she'd agree... I mean, I totally didn't get what you were at until this debate started, and now I can see what you're on about, and most likely I'd probably get my fiancee something too... "
Excellent advice.
"Just one question... when you said "kill myself to make her happy" does that count if you give your life for her, like you jump out in front of a car to push her out of the way, but you die instead? just wondering..."
Haha, perhaps I should have picked a better example. I wasn't trying to reference self-sacrifice in that way. I meant more if she handed me a gun and said, "Shoot yourself in the head to make me happy." That sort of thing. Of course I would sacrifice myself to save her and do it with a smile on my face. Perhaps a better way to put what I meant is if she wants me to do something horribly immoral to make her happy, such as murder thirty children, I wouldn't do that. |
|
Aim at heaven and you will get earth thrown in. Aim at earth and you get neither.
- C.S. Lewis |
|
|
Adelynn
Posts:189
|
| 05/21/2009 10:10 PM |
|
| Yeah, I read your comment again and it made more sense ;-] |
|
"... I will pour out my Spirit upon all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy..." Acts 2.17
What If His People Prayed? |
|
|
JoJo
Posts:1657
|
| 05/21/2009 10:46 PM |
|
LOL yeah... haha I just thought that last one was funny
HAHA thanks for that David |
|
Turn up the music
Turn it up loud
Take a few chances
Let it all out
'Cause you won't regret it
Lookin' back from where you have been
'Cause it's not who you knew
And it's not what you did
It's how you live
.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.
God Bless!
Mwah XOXO
JoJo |
|
|
JoJo
Posts:1657
|
| 05/21/2009 10:50 PM |
|
Oh yeah, my friend made an interesting point, and girl's it would be cool to know what you thought...
when you get an engagement ring... is it you wanting to show it off, or your nagging friends who are desperate to see the ring??
IDk |
|
Turn up the music
Turn it up loud
Take a few chances
Let it all out
'Cause you won't regret it
Lookin' back from where you have been
'Cause it's not who you knew
And it's not what you did
It's how you live
.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.
God Bless!
Mwah XOXO
JoJo |
|
|
JoJo
Posts:1657
|
| 05/21/2009 11:08 PM |
|
Oh to answer you question (sorry i forgot) lol
I'm Originally from South Africa, and I live in New Zealand Atm. |
|
Turn up the music
Turn it up loud
Take a few chances
Let it all out
'Cause you won't regret it
Lookin' back from where you have been
'Cause it's not who you knew
And it's not what you did
It's how you live
.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.
God Bless!
Mwah XOXO
JoJo |
|
|
JoJo
Posts:1657
|
| 05/21/2009 11:09 PM |
|
Oh to answer you question (sorry i forgot) lol
I'm Originally from South Africa, and I live in New Zealand Atm.
(and no... I'm not one of those racist south africans i can't stand them!) |
|
Turn up the music
Turn it up loud
Take a few chances
Let it all out
'Cause you won't regret it
Lookin' back from where you have been
'Cause it's not who you knew
And it's not what you did
It's how you live
.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.
God Bless!
Mwah XOXO
JoJo |
|
|
Koudee
Posts:91
|
| 05/21/2009 11:40 PM |
|
Questioning the norm is fine by me, but what I was trying to say David is that there are a lot of good girls here. You can talk to them, not scrutinize.
We don't have to have a "debate" over "the flaws of socially acceptable practice and the effect of indoctrination of values inside the parameters of interchangeable respect in relationships (or lack of)"
(Take this lightly, I’m trying to be humorous)
I get enough debate from the evolutionists, and people I don’t agree with, can’t we just discuss something?
Yes, scrutiny is a great way to scratch at something and see if it holds up under the pressure, but educating someone can be as simple as, “hey, I want to buy my wife a wedding ring, but I’m not really sure if I agree with it, what do the girls thing about giving something me physical in exchange?”
Debate is like playing Magic the gathering, sure, your playing with cards, but ultimately the person. Debates over the internet are just about the worst idea ever, because without any real idea of the person your just throwing ideas at each other. The most civilized argument in the form of the most basic debate.
Because your effectively “talking” to your monitor, You have to include yourself in your ideas.
IE, it would have been much nicer to know that you weren’t against completely disregarding the ring~giving, and just wanted an object in return.
And yes Jo~jo, you did bring up that most girls don’t need the most expensive ring, but don’t want one from the $2 store either, but I was to busy preparing a personal attack on David at the moment to acknowledge that…sorry David.
|
|
|
|
|
Koudee
Posts:91
|
| 05/21/2009 11:41 PM |
|
| What I ment on that card thing was that over the interent, you don't see the person, only the cards, basic level, |
|
|
|
|
David
Posts:499
|
| 05/22/2009 12:57 AM |
|
I'll reiterate what I expressed earlier. Often I will appear much more harsh than I intend to. To me, I will just be talking and exchanging ideas while to the other person I'll be jumping down their throat. That is never my intention.
I would say a debate is a discussion - an argument without the anger and animosity. It is the true exchange of conflicting ideas between parties who have mutual respect for each other. That is all I am trying to do, even if poorly.
I'd have to say that debates over the internet are actually great ideas. The internet allows for people from all parts of the world and all paths of life to come together and discuss ideas. You don't get that in "real life." Also, what the written word lacks in body language and tone of voice it makes up for in the ability to think about and revise what you are going to say to make sure you are expressing yourself as clearly as possible. Often in verbal debates the one who is simply quickest at constructing their words in a convincing sounding way will win the debate, not necessarily the one who has better points or who is right.
"IE, it would have been much nicer to know that you weren’t against completely disregarding the ring~giving, and just wanted an object in return."
In some ways I am against it. I don't see the necessity for it. It's hard to get around the fact that it's obviously a money grabbing ploy. If the practice didn't exist, people could be more focused on each other and their relationship. And yeah, it does irk me when a girl will brag about her engagement ring to her friends but won't brag about her future husband. The priorities just seem a little off balance. However, an easier and also satisfactory solution is for the girl to present the guy with a physical sign as well. The practice being one sided is a very real problem. |
|
Aim at heaven and you will get earth thrown in. Aim at earth and you get neither.
- C.S. Lewis |
|
|
JoJo
Posts:1657
|
| 05/22/2009 1:45 AM |
|
And yeah, it does irk me when a girl will brag about her engagement ring to her friends but won't brag about her future husband. The priorities just seem a little off balance
LOl i get what you're saying...
But usually at this time, the girl doesnt brag more about the guy because #1 she's been braggin about him even before they started dating, and her friends get kinda sick about always hearing about Mr Awesome all the time... snd #2 The ring is a new topic, so it's like the girl's sneeky way of bringing Mr Awesome back into conversation with her friends without them realising and they think it's all about the ring...
like say I just got engaged... my friends would say "OMGosh! that ring is gorgeous!!" and she'd then say "WOW I know! Isn't mr Awesome so great to me. He care so much about me, and...." etc and then the friend says "Yeah, I wish I had a guy like that!!!" it's basically a convo starter... |
|
Turn up the music
Turn it up loud
Take a few chances
Let it all out
'Cause you won't regret it
Lookin' back from where you have been
'Cause it's not who you knew
And it's not what you did
It's how you live
.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.
God Bless!
Mwah XOXO
JoJo |
|
|
David
Posts:499
|
| 05/22/2009 9:17 AM |
|
Posted By JoJo on 05/22/2009 1:45 AM And yeah, it does irk me when a girl will brag about her engagement ring to her friends but won't brag about her future husband. The priorities just seem a little off balance LOl i get what you're saying... But usually at this time, the girl doesnt brag more about the guy because #1 she's been braggin about him even before they started dating, and her friends get kinda sick about always hearing about Mr Awesome all the time... snd #2 The ring is a new topic, so it's like the girl's sneeky way of bringing Mr Awesome back into conversation with her friends without them realising and they think it's all about the ring... like say I just got engaged... my friends would say "OMGosh! that ring is gorgeous!!" and she'd then say "WOW I know! Isn't mr Awesome so great to me. He care so much about me, and...." etc and then the friend says "Yeah, I wish I had a guy like that!!!" it's basically a convo starter...
While that hasn't been what I've seen, if that's true, then that's good.
|
|
Aim at heaven and you will get earth thrown in. Aim at earth and you get neither.
- C.S. Lewis |
|
|
emilyjanelle
Posts:510
|
| 05/22/2009 10:14 AM |
|
I get enough debate from the evolutionists, and people I don’t agree with, can’t we just discuss something?
heh... that's why I haven't been posting on here nearly as much. I have noo idea what to say anymore... :p |
|
You may as well come quiet.
- Police Maxim |
|
|
Nicole
Posts:547
|
| 05/22/2009 8:52 PM |
|
Wow, i never imagined the tangent on diamond engagement rings would go on for this long, but for the record, i do love debates
I will again agree that an engagement ring does not have to cost you a 3 month salary nor does it have to be the traditional diamond ring. i for one, love objects of sentimental value.
David and Koudee, my heart goes out to you for all the females that seem to be following the media's impression that they put on guys. It's unfair to you guys and it's totally not true.
But yes, I do understand that everywhere we turn as guys now we see “Men are scum, who only want sex, and girls are undervalued goddesses” , and it makes me frustrated to
It makes me disgusted. Guys, of course it isn't true, and i don't believe girls are undervalued goddesses. That's not to say that we are lowlife scum or anything, but our value comes from God for He looks at our hearts. The statement is also one reason why i don't watch TV anymore, the soap operas and the like at least.
And Jojo, about the engagement rings, i think it would be more about friends and family members who want to see the ring. I'm not one to hold out my left hand to the public and say "here it is! Come and see my beautiful ring." No. But i would like to buy my fiancé some type of symbol that equates with my engagement ring, maybe another ring or something of equal value. I like that 3 ring idea.  That is not to say that the ring symbolizes the love and commitment, and without it it just won't work. Not at all. While i would like a ring, i don't think it is absolutely necessary for me to say yes to the guy, i know he loves me.
Also, one more thing. If all the things the girls are saying about giving an engagement ring are correct, why are those things correct only of girls? Why can't they also be true of guys?
David, i'm a little confused with what you are saying here. Would you mind explaining please? |
|
whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect -Mark Twain |
|
|
|